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Personally, i feel the vibe last nite at KS was pretty much near an all time high...
and i think the PAL system had a lot to do with it....
i think it brings the event to a more cohesive, intentional and accountable level..
thoughts?
and i think the PAL system had a lot to do with it....
i think it brings the event to a more cohesive, intentional and accountable level..
thoughts?
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Re: P.A.L. system, impressions?
Sun, January 20, 2008 - 2:38 PMI think it was great to see so many new faces along with all of my favorite regulars. It brought a fresh energy and excitement to the party. Finding a balance between accessible and accountable is a tricky task...and it felt seamless. Kudos!
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Re: P.A.L. system, impressions?
Mon, January 21, 2008 - 8:37 AMSoooo many new faces, I didn't know where to start! I think I'll just have to keep coming back to meet everyone. -
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Re: P.A.L. system, impressions?
Mon, January 21, 2008 - 12:05 PMLos of cool people with great outfits!
Though it did seam that all the a**hole guys were PALs for one another. And I met like 3 gals who had to make "special " favors to get guys to go with them.
At least now a lot of singles know each other so we can get better PALs next time. -
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Re: P.A.L. system, impressions?
Mon, January 21, 2008 - 6:04 PMbeing a greenhorn (keep the euphemistic puns to a minimum) i didn't notice much of a change from a "prior setup" evening - and yes, i can vouch for that being a good thing. Although I suppose getting twitterpated with all the lovely ladies (I had waking dreams of Danielle's posterior) and great (and sometimes esoteric) dressy getups didn't help my percep-shunz much. I look forward to finding some human blinders on ebay so i can keep some focus.
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Re: P.A.L. system, impressions?
Tue, January 22, 2008 - 4:00 PMI was there, but:
What, if anything, happened to these a-hole guys? If they were violating the charter, they could have been booted/banned.
I'm also tres surprised there were women who had to offer "special" favors to get a guy to go with them--usually it is the other way around. "Kids these days."
But I hope you (and others) met some great future PALs. -
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Re: P.A.L. system, impressions?
Tue, January 22, 2008 - 4:01 PMWASN'T there. Which is why I was hoping you could fill me in some more. -
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Re: P.A.L. system, impressions?
Tue, January 22, 2008 - 5:37 PMI didnt notice any a**hole guys
I had my eye on everyone all night and to me it seemed like the best crowd we have had at Kinky Salon in as long as I remember. No need to slap wrists, no need to have words with *anyone*. It was a dream come true
I was totally overwhelmed at how perfect people were behaving.....
hot hot hot
fun fun fun
that was all I saw.
AS ALWAYS email me directly and let me know if there was a specific infraction of the charter that you witnessed. We need to be made aware if something happened!!!
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Re: P.A.L. system, impressions?
Fri, January 25, 2008 - 11:42 AMI talked to at least 3 gals, one who had neve been to KS before, and they did have to bait some people to go with them, hell I had to beg & bribe my ex to go with me.
I forwarded my notes about the wierd guys to Polly.
Unfortunately I was to buzzed, tiered and having fun to think about saying anything to Polly or Scott.
Two of the incidentds I had disliked happened on the smoking deck when no KS figure was around and only 4 at most people were out there. -
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Re: P.A.L. system, impressions?
Fri, January 25, 2008 - 3:01 PMThanks for sharing. And could you forward to me the names of these other gals? ;)
When I'm on Walkaround, I always pop onto the deck (even tho I don't smoke) because you are right--there are often fewer people out there (and no one "in charge"). Sorry you had some bad incidents, but you did the right thing by letting Polly know. -
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Re: P.A.L. system, impressions?
Fri, January 25, 2008 - 6:30 PMThanks for sharing your experience Mary...it brings up good points...
For everyone= WHENEVER POSSIBLE, please deal with any incidents of 'crossed boundaries' as quickly as possible
if you can't/won't deal with it, find someone who can that night!
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many times there is a perceived 'breaking' of the charter
its by a newbie who just doesn't know better or someone's newbie friend who gets too drunk or high
Genuine Assholes never long last at KS, the place is just to damn 'close quarters' for them to fly their crap here.
if you notice someone is out of line at an event but can't/don't want to deal with it, mention it another friend or HOST that can.
doing this 'in person' the night of in a kind and gentle manner is ALWAYS more effective and sets a positive standard in facing issues...
MOST people who we give feedback to are grateful for the kindly reminders
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Mary, not to sound harsh, and obviously...posting here IS taking action..... but if you mention incidents with assholes, but then admit that you were having too much fun to bother dealing with it....you are giving these folks the impression that their behaviour is ok.
thats why its SO IMPORTANT to instigate some manner of communication on the spot!
:) -
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Re: P.A.L. system, impressions?
Fri, January 25, 2008 - 9:14 PMI gotta say, though, it's really embarrassing to have to do that.
It's really tough to be put into that situation at all, and part of the appeal of Kinky Salon(to me) is that people know how to handle him/her/boi/grrl/in-between/outside-of-gender-definition selves and that one doesn't ever *have* to approach a host.
I've had to speak up before at hot springs/tubs. It really sucks to have to ask for that help. It's frightening.
I think it's better to simply prevent that awful situation. But how? -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: P.A.L. system, impressions?
Fri, January 25, 2008 - 9:38 PM100% prevention seems like an impossibility...and if you're unwilling to approach hosts and communicate what you need to make it a good experience for you, in my opinion you would then be part of the problem. I don't mean that to be harsh at all, it's just that the communication is so vital to make any community work. Why would KS be any different than anything else in that respect? -
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Re: P.A.L. system, impressions?
Fri, January 25, 2008 - 9:44 PMtotally Melissa, I agree.
I'm just being devil's advocate on why maybe others didn't speak up with what occurred
(I wasn't there last KS, unfortunately!).
Just bringing up stuff for discussion.
Star
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Re: P.A.L. system, impressions?
Fri, January 25, 2008 - 10:53 PMAmen sista!
KS is more than a party, it is COMMUNITY!
If someone behaves innapropriately you need to call them on it, failing that (for whatever reason) then a KS host needs to be found ASAP, regardless of your "state". We are working on a vibe and just shrugging off bad behavior does no one any favors (the community, the badly behaved individual, future peeps who have to deal with it, etc.).
Getting an email from the hosts after the fact is the equivalent of having someone call you on something you did last week, you rarely remember and if it wasn't bad enough to make you say something at the moment, how bad was it really?
Please, please, please, make this event the sum total of all it can be and communicate!
Peace out, yo! -
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Re: P.A.L. system, impressions?
Mon, January 28, 2008 - 3:33 PMI think thinking about "community" (drink!) does help.
If you think of KS as "just" a party and you paid to get in, then there might be that sense of entitlement that KS "owes" you a perfect atmosphere, with oodles of underlings to observe, step in, etc. in case of unpleasantness.
And that would make things less fun. And hecka more expensive, considering all the underlings that would be needed.
But by agreeing to communicate (is that part of the charter?--that you agree to speak up for yourself), you are helping yourself, your community, and perhaps even this other person out.
Oh: Except for being very busy multitaskers, people working at KS are there to help. So no one should feel like they can't ask for help, if it is needed.
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Re: P.A.L. system, impressions?
Mon, January 28, 2008 - 5:48 PMWeazie, FYI
i always really enjoy how articulate your posts are...thanks! -
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Re: P.A.L. system, impressions?
Tue, January 29, 2008 - 5:06 PMThanks! But I'd trade it all for your fabulous costume closet!
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Re: P.A.L. system, impressions?
Sun, May 25, 2008 - 9:43 PMI tend to agree that it is 100% unavoidable. Sometimes even nice people make poor behavior choices.
However, I just want to pipe up that the only time I felt I needed to say something about someone else's behavior... several other people had already commented and it was being handled rather kindly. That was an excellent feeling; this community tries really hard to take care of each other.
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Re: P.A.L. system, impressions?
Mon, January 28, 2008 - 4:16 PMHow does the P.A.L. system differ from the "couples" system used at Pink? -
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Re: P.A.L. system, impressions?
Mon, January 28, 2008 - 4:19 PMThe guidlines for both are pretty clear...
www.kinkysalon.com
Maybe a more specific question would be easier to answer. -
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Re: P.A.L. system, impressions?
Mon, January 28, 2008 - 4:49 PMBasically, KS allows pals to P.A.L. up and go; "chaperoned single people allowed." Pink expects a relationship ("couples and triads only").
So could you and your pal get into Pink by pretending to be in a relationship? Sure. If you can get by the sniff test, and your Pink hosts are especially good at separating the real relationships from gate-crashing faux ones. -
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Re: P.A.L. system, impressions?
Tue, January 29, 2008 - 11:16 AMI have been out for awhile, so does this mean I need to be in a relationship with a person I bring to pink? I plan to leave my boyfriend at home on Friday and bring a date, I've only gone out with him once- hardly a relationship, to Pink. Is that kosher? I don't think I have been to pink yet.
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Re: P.A.L. system, impressions?
Tue, January 29, 2008 - 11:36 AMLunatic you should be fine, Polly said below
<<you dont necessarily have to be 'in a relationship' as such
just as long as you come 'together' as a 'date'
it can be a first date! as long as its a 'date' >>
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Unsu...
Mutal Orgasm Required?
Tue, January 29, 2008 - 2:32 PM>just as long as you come 'together' as a 'date' <
So if I come first (or second) you're gonna kick me and my date out? Talk about performance pressure! (sorry I couldn't resist)
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Re: P.A.L. system, impressions?
Mon, January 28, 2008 - 4:50 PMI think what he is asking is 'whats the difference between coming as a PAL and coming as a 'date'
well- the answer is that your PAL can just be a friend with no intimacy. They can be either gender, whatever your sexual preferences. Your date at Pink must be someone who you actually want to play with!
They are your "date" and you can't just ditch them as soon as you arrive! -
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Re: P.A.L. system, impressions?
Mon, January 28, 2008 - 4:51 PMOK, thanks for clearing that up... -
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Re: P.A.L. system, impressions?
Mon, January 28, 2008 - 6:20 PMyou dont necessarily have to be 'in a relationship' as such
just as long as you come 'together' as a 'date'
it can be a first date! as long as its a 'date'
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Re: P.A.L. system, impressions?
Mon, January 28, 2008 - 9:20 PMSome of us were so fuckin' stupid we showed up Friday. New system appeared to be working great.
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Re: P.A.L. system, impressions?
Tue, January 29, 2008 - 10:37 AMAbout feedback-
I tend to speak up much more when I think of it as a 'loving mirror"... thanks Scott and Polly for that concept! It's helped me offer feedback, and take feedback, far better than I used to. It also reminds me to be compassionate ad positive with my feedback.
Maybe framing it in that way will help other people as well? -
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loving mirror
Tue, January 29, 2008 - 6:53 PM
Giving feedback is something I've always seen as an endeavor. How do I approach it as a "loving mirror" ?
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Re: P.A.L. system, impressions?
Sat, May 24, 2008 - 12:00 AMI wasn't there. As long as I'm required to come with someone else, it's unlikely I'll be able to attend. Most of my friends are married and settled down. I've volunteered for both KS and CrushLab. I've contributed labor and goods. But that seems to fade into nothing if I don't have a chaperone to bring with me. It makes me feel unappreciated and unwelcome. -
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Re: P.A.L. system, impressions?
Sat, May 24, 2008 - 2:54 PMUnder the PAL, you don't *need* a chaperone. You need some one to vouch for you.
Scotty, Polly, or anyone else working can vouch (provided they're willing). Since *I* know you won't cause trouble, if *I* saw you arrive without a PAL, I would be your PAL. (But I wouldn't automatically PAL anyone, as I don't know and trust everyone.)
(OTOH, just showing up [or requesting a PAL at the last minute] doesn't mean you'll get in -- it all depends on your relationships that pre-exist any KS event.)
And your PAL doesn't necessarily have to be stuck at your hip if you trust your PAL not to cause trouble when they're on their own. -
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Wait a minute ...
Sat, May 24, 2008 - 7:53 PMIt's more than just having someone "vouch" for me, isn't it?
I mean, I can't just show up and hope that Polly says, "oh, yeah, that Paladin guy ... he's ok.." That's not the way I understood the PAL system -- was I reading too much into it?? -
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Re: Wait a minute ...
Sat, May 24, 2008 - 8:09 PMI think I understood it the way you did Paladin, otherwise how is it any different than having a single guy license? -
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Re: Wait a minute ...
Sat, May 24, 2008 - 8:28 PMWe don't make a practice of vouching for people at the door. That, in my opinion is poor planning on the PAL-less person's part, and definitely a crap shoot.
Bottom line, the system works over 90% of the time. Don't have someone to PAL you? Volunteer for a two hour shift, thus bypassing the PAL requirement and the entrance fee. Give and take, you know?
And for the record, on my walkaround duties, I've never grabbed someone by the scruff and demanded "Who's your PAL!" (Who's your daddy, maybe...but that's something different entirely :)
Thanks for the revisit on the policy, it's been educational. -
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Re: Wait a minute ...
Sat, May 24, 2008 - 8:32 PM<<I've never grabbed someone by the scruff and demanded "Who's your PAL!" (Who's your daddy, maybe...but that's something different entirely :) >>
Hmmm so that is what you say eh ;)
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Re: Wait a minute ...
Sun, May 25, 2008 - 1:05 PMYeah, expecting to be vouching is risky at best. But since going to KS always takes a degree of prep (costuming, etc.), is it too much to ask to also secure a PAL? And Melissa is right: Just volunteer and you're in, no prob.
I have asked, "Who's your PAL?" But only the very rare occasion I caught someone lurking alone where one shouldn't be lurking alone. -
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Re: Wait a minute ...
Mon, May 26, 2008 - 5:48 PMI am sorry that you feel unappreciated, Spidra. The people who volunteer are the backbone of this community and I hate to think of anyone feeling like we don't value them.
The thing is that the PAL system is really working. It has transformed the events... they are gender balanced, and the 'creepy lurker dude' element has been completely eradicated, and its a lot fairer than making guys jump through hoops when girls dont have to. If it hadnt made such a positive difference to the community then I might think twice, but the results have been pretty amazing
The concept of such distributed accountability- where every person here has a person to keep an eye on, has had a profound effect on Kinky Salon. Just knowing that every person here is doing their small piece for the integrity of the event builds an enormous amount of community vibe and trust.
For a system that works this well its difficult for me to be drawn to make any changes to it. Making an exception is tricky, because once you do that with one person there will be a line of people wanting to come without a PAL, and where do I draw the line?
I think its fair that volunteers dont need a PAL- that gives me enough people to keep an eye on....
So many people on this tribe know you and trust you- all you need to do is say hi a couple of days before the event and someone will be happy to be your PAL. I think it would be a shame for you not come to Kinky Salon because you dont have a PAL when its so easy for you to get one.
Remember- you are welcome to have more than one PAL- so even if you come with a couple, or someone who already has a PAL, that will still get you in.
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